\n\t\t\t\tRead Cara’s stories\t\t\t<\/a><\/p>\n\t\t\tCara is an Edward R. Murrow and National Association of Black Journalists award-winning reporter from East St. Louis, Illinois. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, Time magazine, NPR, and other outlets nationwide. Her reporting trip to the Missouri Bootheel in August 2020 launched the \u201cSilence in Sikeston\u201d project. She is a producer on the documentary and the podcast\u2019s host.\t\t<\/p>\n
\n\t\tIn Conversation With \u2026\t<\/h3>\n
\tGail Christopher
\n\tPublic health leader and health equity expert\u00a0<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\tclick to open the transcript\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\t\tTranscript: Is There a Cure for Racism?\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n
Editor\u2019s note<\/strong>: If you are able, we encourage you to listen to the audio of \u201cSilence in Sikeston,\u201d which includes emotion and emphasis not found in the transcript. This transcript, generated using transcription software, has been edited for style and clarity. Please use the transcript as a tool but check the corresponding audio before quoting the podcast.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Ambient sounds from Sikeston, Missouri\u2019s 2021 Juneteenth celebration \u2014 a DJ making an announcement over funky music, people chatting \u2014 begin playing.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> It\u2019s 2021. It\u2019s hot and humid. We\u2019re at a park in the heart of Sunset \u2014 Sikeston, Missouri\u2019s historically Black neighborhood.\u00a0<\/p>\nEmory: Today is Juneteenth, baby.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> The basketball courts are jumping. And old-school funk is blaring from the speakers. Kids are playing.\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: <\/strong>[Laughter] <\/em><\/strong>Are you enjoying the water?<\/strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> People are lining up for barbecue.\u00a0<\/p>\nI\u2019ve been here reporting on the toll racism and violence can take on a community\u2019s health. But today, I\u2019m hoping to capture a little bit of Sikeston\u2019s joy.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Taneshia Pul<\/strong>ley:<\/strong> When I look out to the crowd of my people, I see strength. I see power. I just see all magic.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> I drift over to a tent where people are getting their blood pressure, weight, and height checked \u2026 health screenings for free.\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> I\u2019m a journalist.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCommunity Health Worker: Ooooh! Hi! Hi!<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> The ladies working the booth are excited I\u2019m there to report on the event.\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: OK, and I\u2019m a health journalist.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCommunity health worker: Baby, that\u2019s what I told them. Yeah, she healthy. <\/strong>[Laughter]<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\n[Dramatic instrumental music plays.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> This Juneteenth gathering is happening a little over a year after Sikeston police officers shot and killed 23-year-old Denzel Taylor.\u00a0<\/p>\nWe made a documentary about Denzel\u2019s death and the death of another young Black man \u2014 also killed in Sikeston.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Denzel was shot by police. Nearly 80 years earlier, Cleo Wright was lynched by a white mob.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Both were killed before they got their day in court.\u00a0<\/p>\n
In these years of reporting, what I\u2019ve found is that many Black families worry that their <\/em>kids don\u2019t have an equal chance of growing up healthy and safe in Sikeston.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Dramatic instrumental ends.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nRosemary Owens:<\/strong> <\/strong>Being Black in the Bootheel can get you killed at any age.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: That\u2019s Rosemary Owens. She raised her children here in Southeast Missouri.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: <\/strong>About 10 Sikeston police officers showed up to Juneteenth \u2014 for security and to connect with the community. Some are in uniform; some are in plain clothes.\u00a0<\/p>\nRosemary has her doubts about why they came today.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Cara Anthony:<\/strong> <\/strong>You see the police chief talking to people. What\u2019s going through your mind as you see them milling about?<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nRosemary Owens:<\/strong> <\/strong>I hope they are real and wanting to close the gap between the African Americans and the white people.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nAnybody can come out and shake hands. But at the end of the day, did you mean what you said? Because things are still going on here in Sikeston, Missouri.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> For Rosemary, this brings to mind an encounter with the police from years ago.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Slow, minor, instrumental music plays softly.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nWhen her son was maybe 16 years old, she says, she and her sister gave their boys the keys to their new cars \u2014 told them they could hang out in them.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Rosemary had gotten her new car for Mother\u2019s Day.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Rosemary Owens: A brand-new red Dodge Caravan. We, we knew the boys were just going from the van to the car. You know, just showing out \u2014 they were boys. They weren\u2019t driving.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> Someone nearby saw the boys \u2026\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\nRosemary Owens:<\/strong> <\/strong>\u2026 called and told the police that two Black men were robbing cars.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\n\u00a0When the boys saw the police come up, there was three police cars. So they were like, something\u2019s going on. So their intention, they were like, they were trying to run to us. And my brother said, stop. When they looked back, when the police got out of the car, they already had their guns drawn on my son and my nephew.<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0Cara Anthony:<\/strong> That\u2019s what Rosemary thinks about when she sees Sikeston police at Juneteenth.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Slow, minor, instrumental music ends.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\n[\u201cSilence in Sikeston\u201d theme song plays.]<\/em>\u00a0\u00a0Cara Anthony:<\/strong> In this podcast series, we\u2019ve talked about some of the ways racism makes Black people sick. But Juneteenth has me thinking about how we get free \u2014 how we STOP racism from making us sick.\u00a0<\/p>\nThe public health experts say it\u2019s going to take systemwide, institutional change.\u00a0<\/p>\n
In this episode, we\u2019re going to examine what that community-level change looks like \u2014 or at least what it looks like to make a start.\u00a0<\/p>\n
From WORLD Channel and KFF Health News, distributed by PRX, this is \u201cSilence in Sikeston.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
Episode 4 is our final episode: \u201cIs There a Cure for Racism?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
[\u201cSilence in Sikeston\u201d theme song ends.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen: How you doing?<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nJuneteenth celebration attendee: Good. Good.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen: Good to see you, man.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nJuneteenth celebration attendee: What\u2019s up? How are you? <\/strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> When I spot Sikeston\u2019s director of public safety in his cowboy hat, sipping soda from a can, I head over to talk.\u00a0\u00a0James McMillen: Well, you know, I just, I, I\u2019m glad to be \u2026 on the inside of this.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: <\/strong>James McMillen leads the police department. He says he made it a point to come to Juneteenth. And he encouraged his officers to come, too.\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen:<\/strong> I remember as being a young officer coming to work here, not knowing anybody, driving by a park and seeing several Black people out there. And I remember feeling, you know, somewhat intimidated by that. And I don\u2019t really know why.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nI hadn\u2019t always been, um, that active in the community. And, um, I, I have been the last several years and I\u2019m just wanting to teach officers to do the same thing.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> The chief told me showing up was part of his department\u2019s efforts to repair relations with Sikeston\u2019s Black residents.\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen:<\/strong> <\/strong>What\u2019s important about this is, being out here and actually knowing people, I think it builds that trust that we need to have to prevent and solve crimes.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> A few minutes into our conversation, I notice a teenager and her friend nearby, listening.\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: Yeah, we have two people who are watching us pretty closely. Come over here. Come over here. Tell us your names.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nLauren: My name is Lauren.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nMichaiahes: My name is Michaiahes.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: Yeah. And what are you all \u2026 ?<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen: I saw you over there.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: So, what do you think about all of this?<\/strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nMichaiahes: Personally, I don\u2019t even know who this is because I don\u2019t mess with police because, because of what\u2019s happened in the past with the police. But, um \u2026<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> As she starts to trail off, I encourage her to keep going.\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: He\u2019s right here. He\u2019s in charge of all of those people.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nMichaiahes: Well, in my opinion, y\u2019all should start caring about the community more.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: What are you hearing? She\u2019s speaking from the heart here, Chief. What are you hearing?<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen: Well, you know what? I agree with everything she said there.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> She\u2019s confident now, looking the chief in the eye.\u00a0<\/p>\nMichaiahes: And let\u2019s just be honest: Some of these police officers don\u2019t even want to be here today. They\u2019re just here to think they\u2019re doing something for the community.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen: Let\u2019s be honest. Some of these are assumptions that y\u2019all are making about police that y\u2019all don\u2019t really know.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\n[Subtle propulsive music begins playing.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nMichaiahes: If we seen you protecting community, if we seen you doing what you supposed to do, then we wouldn\u2019t have these assumptions about you.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen:<\/strong> <\/strong>I just want to say that people are individuals. We have supervisors that try to keep them to hold a standard. And you shouldn\u2019t judge the whole department, but, but just don\u2019t judge the whole department off of a few. No more than I should judge the whole community off of a few.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> But here\u2019s the thing \u2026 in our conversations over the years, Chief McMillen has been candid with me about how, as a rookie cop, he<\/em> <\/strong>had judged Sikeston\u2019s Black residents based on interactions with just a few.\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen:<\/strong> <\/strong>Some of, um, my first calls in the Black community were dealing with, obviously, criminals, you know? So if first impressions mean anything, that one set a bad one. I had, um, really unfairly judging the whole community based on the few interactions that I had, again, with majority of criminals.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> The chief says he\u2019s moved past that way of thinking and he\u2019s trying to help his officers move past their <\/em>assumptions.\u00a0<\/p>\nAnd he told me about other things he wants to do \u2026\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Hire more Black officers. Invest in racial-bias awareness education for the department. And open up more lines of communication with the community.\u00a0<\/p>\n
James McMillen: I know that we are not going to see progress or we\u2019re not going to see success without a little bit of pain and discomfort on our part.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever heard the chief use the term institutional change, but the promises and the plans he\u2019s making sound like steps<\/em> in that direction.\u00a0<\/p>\nExcept \u2026 here\u2019s something else the chief says he wants \u2026\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
[Subtle propulsive music ends with a flourish.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen: As a police officer, I would like to hear more people talk about, um, just complying with the officer.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> That phrase is chilling to me.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Quiet, dark music starts playing.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nWhen I hear \u201cjust comply\u201d \u2026 a litany of names cross my mind.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Philando Castile.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Sonya Massey.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Tyre Nichols.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Cara Anthony: After Denzel Taylor was killed, people felt unsafe. I talked to a lot of residents on the record about them feeling like they didn\u2019t know if they could be next.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nOne thing that you told me was, like, well, one thing that people can do is comply with the officers, you know, if they find themselves having an interaction with law enforcement.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nJames McMillen: Well, I mean, I think that\u2019s, that\u2019s a good idea to do.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nAnd if the person is not complying, that officer has got to be thinking, is this person trying to hurt me? So, asking people to comply with the officer\u2019s command \u2014 that\u2019s a reasonable statement.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> But, it\u2019s well documented: Black Americans are more likely than our white peers to be perceived as dangerous by police.\u00a0<\/p>\nThat perception increases the chances we\u2019ll be the victim of deadly force. Whether we comply \u2014 or not.\u00a0<\/p>\n
[Quiet, dark music ends.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nThat\u2019s all to say \u2026 even with<\/em> the promise of more Black officers in Sikeston and all the chief\u2019s other plans, I\u2019m not sure institutional change in policing is coming soon to Sikeston.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Sparse electronic music starts playing.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> I took that worry to Gail Christopher. She has spent her long career trying to address the causes of institutional racism.\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: We\u2019ve been calling most of our guests by their first name, but what\u2019s your preference? I don\u2019t want to get in trouble with my mom on this, you know? <\/strong>[Cara laughs.]<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nGail Christopher: If you don\u2019t mind, Dr. Christopher is good.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: OK. All right. That sounds good. I\u2019m glad I asked.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> Dr. Christopher thinks a lot about the connections between race and health. And she\u2019s executive director of the National Collaborative for Health Equity. Her nonprofit designs strategies for social change.\u00a0<\/p>\nShe says the way to think about starting to fix structural racism \u2026 is to think about the future.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Gail Christopher:<\/strong> <\/strong>What do you want for your daughter? What do I want for my children? I want them not to have interactions with the police, No. 1, right?<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nUh, so I want them to have safe places to be, to play, to be educated \u2026 equal access to the opportunity to be healthy.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> But I wonder if that future is even possible.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Sparse electronic music ends.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony: Is there a cure for racism? And I know it\u2019s not that simple, but is there a cure?<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nGail Christopher:<\/strong> <\/strong>I love the question, right? And my answer to you would be yes. It is a process, and it\u2019s not enough to march and get a victory. We have to transform the systems of inequity in this country.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> And Dr. Christopher says it is<\/em> possible. Because racism is a belief system.\u00a0<\/p>\n[Hopeful instrumental music plays.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\nGail Christopher:<\/strong> <\/strong>There is a methodology that\u2019s grounded in psychological research and social science for altering our beliefs and subsequently altering our behaviors that are driven by those beliefs.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> To get there, she says, institutions need a rigorous commitment to look closely at what they are doing \u2014 and the outcomes they\u2019re creating.\u00a0<\/p>\nGail Christopher:<\/strong> <\/strong>Data tracking and monitoring and being accountable for what\u2019s going on.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nWe can\u2019t solve a problem if we don\u2019t admit that it exists.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> One of her favorite examples of what it looks like to make a start<\/em> toward <\/em>systemic change comes from the health care world.\u00a0<\/p>\nI know we\u2019ve been talking about policing so far, but \u2014 bear with me here \u2014 we\u2019re going to pivot to another way institutional bias kills people.\u00a0<\/p>\n
A few years ago, a team of researchers at the Brigham and Women\u2019s Hospital in Boston reviewed admission records for patients with heart failure. They found that Black and Latinx people were less likely than white patients to be admitted to specialized cardiology units.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Gail Christopher:<\/strong> <\/strong>Without calling people racist, they saw the absolute data that showed that, wait a minute, we\u2019re sending the white people to get the specialty care and we\u2019re not sending the people of color.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/p>\nCara Anthony:<\/strong> So, Brigham and Women\u2019s launched a pilot program.\u00a0<\/p>\nWhen a doctor requests a bed for a Black or Latinx patient with heart failure, the computer system notifies them that, historically, Black and Latinx patients haven\u2019t had equal access to specialty care.\u00a0<\/p>\n
The computer system then recommends the patient be admitted to the cardiology unit. It\u2019s still up to the doctor to actually do that.\u00a0<\/p>\n
The hard data\u2019s not published yet, but we checked in with the hospital, and they say the program seems to be making a difference.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Gail Christopher:<\/strong>